Gaia: Hey, welcome to another fantastic and this is going to be an incredibly juicy conversation with my wonderful guests. And today we're gonna talk about masturbation racking, robbing one. All right, my beautiful, wonderful guests introduce themselves. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawye:r Hi, my name is Evita Sawyer. I am a non monogamy educator. I also am a sex educator I blog on inspiring Death Doulas. And I am a black, queer, non monogamous mother and wife, navigating all of these identities and sharing my experiences navigating these identities and helping the world through those, the sharing of that experience. So that's pretty much myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Yeah, so we're gonna have a juicy conversation. And so one of the things around you know, Tickle.Life podcast is that we drive or we dive in with the experts to find out what's going on in their personal life. And so today, we're going to talk about you're going to tell us a juicy story about your adventures into the world of masturbation, but before that, I want to ask you a question. When you sleep, is it with clothes? are you naked? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Um, it depends. So I prefer to sleep with no clothes on. But I get very cold. Like I'm, I get very cold and I almost I kind of have to be dressed. But, when I get the opportunity to feel warm enough to sleep naked I generally sleep naked or in my underwear. I don't really wear a lot around my house if I can avoid it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Nice. And do you? Are you in undergarment wear or are you Commando? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: You know, I become commando lately. So like the last probably like couple of months, I've just kind of foregone underwear and I kind of like it. So like I haven't really been wearing underwear. Except like when I'm on my cycle. Like I haven't really been wearing underwear for the past few months. I'm kind of keep this ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: In all fairness, all I'll share, I'll answer the same question. I'm, I'm a nudist. So as much as naked as I can possibly I sleep naked. I cook naked except for when I'm cooking bacon. And ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: maybe sometimes I do I do cook naked. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: And I also don't wear undergarments, at all. Alright, so take us on this journey about masturbation? Where do you want it? What story do you want to tell us? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: So um, I have always been a pretty sexual human being, even as a child, which I know is kind of taboo, but it's just true. Like, I've just always kind of been aware of myself once I became aware of like, what sex was, I've always been kind of aware of myself as a sexual will be. And so I remember I probably started like trying to figure out or trying to like masturbate and like self pleasure. When I was maybe about eight or nine, and I had a little, and I hadn't gone through like, like a while I went to Catholic school at that time. And so we had gone through like family life, you know, what they told us about the sperm and the egg. But they gave this very, like clinical and kind of like cleaned up version of like sex education, just enough for you to get the mechanics and the nuts and bolts of like, how it works. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: But how old were you? When that happened? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: I think it was in fourth grade. So I can remember the big hullabaloo where they like, you know, cuz you had a sign to do it. It was like a big deal on the Catholic school. So like, and it's I remember my parents, like had this whole conversation about you know, whether or not we're gonna even be able to do the curriculum and stuff. And I was like, Okay, what's the big deal. And I never saw what the big deal was about that. But I've never seen what the big deal is not that it's not like great, but like, all of the stuff that we put into it, but you know what, it has to be this way, or it has to do with someone that you love, or like I just never saw it that way. Like, you know, I just didn't I was like, What is the big deal? And so I had this little like vanity set that my mom had got me and it was like the handheld mirror and the column and the brush and I remember it was red. And so I was trying to use the handle to sort of like treat myself and like have sex, you know, because it's balance sheets. And but I didn't know like the mechanics of how sex worked. You know, so I thought that like the penis kind of laid into the boba, like a hot dog, you know? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Which logically totally makes sense. If you didn't see like the the hole and the penetration part only makes sense. It would totally work like, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: right, exactly. So I was like, Oh, amazing. They're like hot dogs. I'm like, you know, took the handle and kind of like laid it in between like my labia, like, kind of like a hot dog. And I'm, you know, I think I'm doing something, but I'm totally not. And it wasn't until I was maybe 12. I think Gore, I finally was like, Oh, this is how this works. I'm more specifically, this is how it works for my body. And a lot of women because I, the time that I come from penetration or, you know, they're sort of few and far between, you know, most of my masturbation is is focused on clitoral stimulation, which is a lot of women, you know, it's focused on stimulation. And so, um, so it wasn't until I was probably about 12 When I was like, okay, like, you know, this is how I need to masturbate. So I tried by sticking a highlighter in there like, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Hey, wait, before we get into the juiciness of that, I want to come back to the hot dog masturbation time. All right. So I have some questions ask you right to get some more details. So did it feel good? Did you move it up and down side to side? Did it feel good? Was it like. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: it didn't like, it was just I really didn't know what I was doing. I just kind of waited there. And I think I just expected ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A nd, yeah, it wasn't until I got to be, like I said, about 12 years old. Actually, what happened was I my mom had a friend that was living with us. She was kind of down and out. And so she moved in to, you know, kind of get back on our feet. And she had a bunch of like porn. And I had seen porn before. Like, long time ago, back when I was like eight or nine around the same time. My dad had like, left one VCR and we thought it wasn't tape bars, and so watched it. But ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: I can't wait. So when you watched it, how did it make you feel like he was this your first imagery of like, people having sex? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Yeah, it was it was my first imagery of people having sex. I mean, I feel like I'd maybe seen my parents but like, not like, like, full on my blood. Like, you know, I might have like gone to the room and kind of been aware that that's what they were doing. Or like, you know, the door might have been cracked a little bit. But like, I this is my first light in your face, like sex is happening. And it was funny because I was with my sister. My parents weren't home and she wanted to turn it off. But she was just like, oh my god, like, you know, we should not be watching it. And I was like, no, no, no, no. No, need a little bit. I was so intrigued and fascinated, and like titillated, you know, I was like, oh, like I really want to I want to watch this. I want to see what this is. And I'll never forget it. It was one woman and three guys. And it was like this, like 80s porn, like he on this gray sweater. Everybody has mustaches? You know, Tom Selleck, you know, and, and yeah, but I remember being really excited about seeing this and going, wow, like, you know, I really want to watch this whole thing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: And how did your sister did your sister, like, leave the room? And did you continue watching it? Did you? Can you ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: hear but very uncomfortably, like I could tell she was very uncomfortable. And we did eventually tell my mom, like we told my mom what happened. And you know, my mom was like, Oh, my goodness, you know? So, but she was not comfortable. Like she was very, very uncomfortable. Whereas I was like, you know, I really wanted to see it. And like I said, I've just never seen what the big deal is about sex. Like I'm like, why are we talking about it? Like, what is the big deal guys? Like, you know, I've never seen what was so. Um, and so when my mom's friend moves in. She I went snooping for Christmas presents and found her porn stash. So I found it and I was like, Jack, I had this tape. And I remember the name of it. So the day I die was called International o's and had a red label on it. It was a VHS. And it was all these clips of porn from different countries. So they had Germany, they had US and France and Mexico. And they had all these different like clips of like porn from different, you know, countries and stuff. And that's why it's called International hosts. So and so I found that tape and that kind of started me masturbating at that time because I would like to sneak away and I would go and watch that tape. You know, and because I like I can masturbate you know, with just imagery in my mind, but I do like having a visual aid so like, I'm not a big porn watcher. But when I watch generally when I masturbate, yeah. Gaia: Nice. And when when do you remember your very first orgasm, like masturbating or orgasm? Do you remember what that was? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Do I remember my very first orgasm? I don't I can't say that I like remember it off the top of my head. Uh, I just remember going, I want to feel this again. Like, I think I remember that. Like, what's that? Like? Okay. So, and for a very long time, because I've had, I've been sexually active human beings since I was maybe about 12 or 13. And for a very long time, the only orgasms that I had were self abuse. So I just had not, you know, my husband was actually the first person to give me an orgasm that I didn't get myself. So, um, so yeah, so I've been very well acquainted with, like how to, you know, pleasure my own body for a very long time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Okay, so we're gonna talk about a highlighter, I cut you off when you were about to talk about putting, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: you know, various things, because I didn't have you know, access to sex toys, you know, so I would use, you know, different phallic shaped thing, but he's a highlighter, you know, I feel like I may have used a cucumber at some point, you know, but I will use you know, various, like phallic shaped things to kind of mimic penetration you know, up until you know, when I actually started having sex and but yeah, and then my mom so my mom is actually lesbian and so I would find you know, her like, you know, doodles and things like that, that she would use but I didn't use them I think I was probably mortified. Which is funny. But um, but yeah, so like, I would use like different phallic shaped things you know, to kind of mimic you know, penetration. And now I have a I have what I call the black mamba Black Label. And it gets the job done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: So, do you what was your motivator behind wanting to do the penetrative sex? When, when when you were more clitoral stimulate like more arouse from clitoral stimulation. So what was kind of the you remember what kind of some thought processes or some feelings are around why you were wanting to penetrate yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: I think it was just wanting to create the act of sex and what it would feel like and you know, I've heard so many things about you know, sex feeling good, that I wanted to recreate, you know, the act of sex. And even though penetration is not something that I orgasm from a lot, I still really enjoy it, I enjoy that feeling of having, you know, something inside me, and especially when I'm orgasming. So, like, oftentimes when I'm masturbating now, what I usually do is I put the jackrabbit inside me, and then I have a want for the clitoral stimulation so that my like, um, that that's in the walls have something to grip. You know, as I'm cuming, you know, I enjoy that sensation. So I think I just really wanted to have the experience of like, what sex feels like, you know, and so that's why I wanted to, and then to at the time, when I was masturbating, I didn't know that those mechanics about my body that, you know, penetration is probably not going to be something that I experienced, you know, a lot of orgasms from, like, I just wasn't aware of that. It was all really just exploration. Mm hmm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: And was there any did you ever get caught? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Oh, yeah. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: And what happened? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: I remember one time, because my mom, so that apartment that we lived in, like, my mom's friend's room was kind of like out in the hall and like, off, you know, and so that's where the tapes were. And so sometimes I would sneak in there when she was at work. And I would, you know, play around, and my mom walked in one day, and like, she just got very flustered, and was just like, don't do that here. She's kind of like, walked out. I was like, okay, and I was just like, what, whatever. So, um, I just kind of kept the party going, like, you know, stop. Stop me from doing it. No, like, good. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Which is beautiful. Because for many people, that's not their experience. Right? You know ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Right. Yeah, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: They get caught is this shame and all that kind of stuff in the internalization of that and things like that. So, yay, didn't stop you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Yeah, shame is an emotion. I don't experience a whole lot of you know, how I can non monogomy when people talk about you know, there's some people that they just don't experience jealousy. It's just not an emotion that it's not just not very large and their emotional index. Yeah, for me, shame is just not very large and my emotional index, so like, I don't remember like my mom doing that to me and to me feeling like dirty and like I shouldn't be doing this it was more like, I need to be a little bit more careful, don't get caught. But there was never been to stop doing this. This is wrong. Like that never happened. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Alright, so the audience wants to know, mostly I'm noticing and I want to know is, so what's in your spank bag, like what's in your like your go to these days? Oh, when you're like when you're when you're when you're masturbating when you're whacking off. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Um, so I do a lot of visualization of scenarios that I find appealing. So I'm actually learning a lot about myself, kink wise in my masturbation because I find that I do have some sort of attraction to power dynamics. So like, I'll like it, the funny thing is, mentally, these things are sexy to me, like, if they actually happen in real life, I'd be horrified but like, in my mind, like, you know, they're sexy. So like, I'll imagine like going on an interview and the interviewer being like, you know, in order to get this job, but you have to set my day or you know, like, just shit like that, you know, standard, you know, kind of porn stuff, or I'll masturbate like about sex of my boss is so funny because I worked at this place. And we had a couple of, you know, project managers that worked in there. And I would always feel like I would say to my friends, like, I should like buy them lunch because they give me like these amazing orgasms. Thank you, like, hey, like ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Thanks for all the fantastic orgasm. There's your sandwich. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Guy who like works in our apartment complex, and I'll see him like sometimes I'm driving around. And I've had these like masturbation fantasies of like him coming over to work on something and that's like fucking and so the other day he like shows up at my door because we put in like a work request. And he shows up and it's so like, awkward because I'm just like, I totally come to like, thinking about fucking you like, and you have no idea. So I think about those things. I do watch porn. I do a lot of gang bangs are like one of the things I really really enjoy. I like some like, like mild like humiliation degradation, like, you know, public like, sex. Um, what else do I watch? Ah, I like pretty hardcore, like blowjobs. So, I like watching those things too. So things like that. That's kind of the stuff I like to think about and you know, scenarios, just people that I find sexy, having sex are kind of taboo, you know, things things that like I said that like, there's an element of like, I would never do this in real life. But like, in my mind, it's super hot. So yeah. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: And in the power dynamics that you're playing out. What What role are you in? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: I'm sub I'm very sub. Yeah. Which is so funny to me. Because most people meet me and they're like, Oh, your dominant, like right away. And I'm like, I'm actually not so I think I give us such a like, I am woman hear me, right, you know, kind of energy, that I'm actually no, I'm like, I'm very, I'm actually super, I feel like I'm very savvy, actually, in this space. I'm usually the person on the other end, like, you know, on the, like, the power of the bottom, I'm usually the bottom. And I find that appealing. Yes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Beautiful. All right. This was awesome. Thank you for like, totally leaning in. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: I love talking about this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Um, so how can people spend more time with you? So let's talk about that we can switch gears into your, like, professional world. Okay. So, um, tell us about what you do in the world professionally, and how people can spend more time with you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Um, so professionally, I do. Probably every coaching so I do individual and couples and so do coaching sessions, people have issues or different things that they're working through their non monogamy or just trying to figure out how to navigate it. So I do that. Like I said, I'm also an aspiring death doula. So I'm working through getting my certification for that. And I do a lot of like non monogamy like sharing and teaching on my Facebook platform, which is Evit and then on Instagram would be to 34 Um, and so that's actually really what I do at like most of the podcast interviews, I've done television show I actually have a documentary called Polly love it's on Amazon and it chronicles our first polyamorous relationship on it's really really good. Um, and I've done conferences I've gotten spoken at several conferences and talks about non monogamy and and workshops and stuff like that. So I do a lot of like polyamorous like, helping. Yeah, it was very challenging for me. Getting into it, it was extremely challenging for me. And so when I would talk about and there was just not a lot of people talking about the challenges, like when I got in most of what I saw people talking about was like, I don't mean, to do this, my everybody kind of wants to, like, you know, put up this like, facade of like we're doing this and it feels great. And I'm enjoying it the whole time. And for someone who's new and coming out of monogamy, that's very daunting, because you're not there yet. It takes time to get there. So some people, they just arrived that way. Like, I feel like my husband was one of those people that he just kind of arrived that way. But me it was definitely a transitory period, it was definitely a learning process. And so I do a lot of like, helping people kind of navigate them or more uncomfortable sides of polyamory kind of getting used to the new paradigm of operating a non monogamously Gaia: I love it. And you and I are going to have another show all about the transition from monogamy. The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and you know, monogamy and I think it's so powerful and so important as somebody else who is an ethical, non monogamous, you know, that whole piece around? It's not all roses and rainbows and orgasms and orgies? No, and it goes down. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Yes. And you think that you're just gonna make this decision to be non monogamous, and it's all just gonna click and it's like, no, like, it's a process of learning. And unlearning is a lifelong process of learning. If you're still receiving those non monogamous messages, unless you grew up in polyamory, which is very rare, you know, you're going to you're still receiving all of those monogamous messages that monogamy is your default. And you have to like, rewrite that script kind of internally. But a lot of people just are not aware of that. So they're doing this going, Why isn't this working for me? And it's like, because you're still operating here, you're still using the same operating system yet to switch the operating system? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Yeah. Which I'm so excited about that show like, this is a fantastic show. But that's gonna be even juicy your show. So at so you can get all of her wonderful contacts, and we'll put it all in the show notes and how you can spend more time with her. And, you know, and if you're really diving, wanting to dive into, you know, switching from monogamy to non monogamy, then you need the support. And she's Yes. Hi, viewless. So go spend some time with her. All right, thank you so much for being on the show. And I can't wait till our next conversation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Yeah. This is great. I love this conversation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Um, what is there one piece of advice that you want to leave the I leave the audience with around masturbation? what's your what's your one? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: My takeaway is that you can't instruct someone how to pleasure you if you don't know how to pleasure yourself. And so take the time to really get to know your body. And so many things happened to us in our lives that disconnect us from our bodies and disconnect us from our bodies as vehicles of pleasure. And so we have to make a conscious effort to come back to that and to connect with our bodies as vehicles of pleasure, we connect with our bodies as vehicles work, as you know, vehicles have like, you know, like, protection and like, you know, when we go through things, or vehicles of pain, that we have sickness that we have assault, but we don't take a lot of time to connect with our bodies as vehicles and pleasure because there's so much shame that's put on us around that. And if you don't know how to please yourself, if you don't know your body is a vehicle of pleasure, then you can't tell someone how to pleasure you. And you also can't bring pleasure to that person, you have to embody pleasure. So take the time to learn your body. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing shameful about it. Pleasure brings good feelings, it brings good energy, it raises your immune system, like it has so many wonderful benefits. And you know, you can give that to yourself. And once you give that to yourself, and you can attract that from other people, because you already know how to give it to yourself. So like take that time to kind of learn your body as a vehicle of pleasure so that you can you can you can manifest more pleasure in your life in general. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: Yes, pleasure, pleasure, pleasure. Pleasure is your friend. Absolutely. And I always remember my mother saying to me, this is the one to like, I grew up in a household where we were allowed to masturbate, like that was encouraged. It was a supportive piece. And I remember always saying to me, until you know what you like, how are you ever going to show somebody else? How to please right? And that message was like Yes. And that that premise of you know, knowing your body exploring your body so you know if you've never explored masturbation today's a good day to start. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evita Sawyer: Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely is. And if you do ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaia: and if You already mastered you're an avid masturbator try something new. explore something new today. Hey, yeah. Hey. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for yours. And we'll talk to y'all soon. Bye bye ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Transcribed by https://otter.ai